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It's a rainy Saturday afternoon here in Vancouver, and I'm attending Northern Voice, Canada's blogging conference being held at UBC's School of Forestry. Crazy building... I got lost on my way here, and found myself in the wood shop and storage area. I was tempted to pull my truck up, and score some of the crazy-looking extruded wood products that you don't see in Rona or Home Depot, but I suppose that would look bad to have some CBC guy horking wood when he's suppose to be attending a conference.

As you can see from the photo there, it's been an interesting event. I've attended a number of great sessions, with the most recent being on using wikis to help build community. And so I've been trying to figure out how we could use them here at Radio 3.

As I've mentioned previously we're about to redevelop this website, and so there's about a million ideas floating around on the backs of napkins, and cigarette packages, but seeing as the internet is as stormy and fast-changing a place as the sea, nothing is firm yet.

So, the question is... what would you like to see us do? What do you like about this site? What do you hate? Would you like to be more involved? If so, how? What kind of tools would you like? How can we make this a killer site? Discuss.

Photo by Kris Krug
ETA:
The chap in the photo BTW is Mark Busse.

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It's a rainy Saturday afternoon here in Vancouver, and I'm attending Northern Voice,…

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maayanster
#1 posted by
maayanster
on Feb 24, 2007
The forsetry atrium is a really nice place to study. Pretty.

Beyond that, I have no particular revelations. I like the site. Maybe being able to make a few playlists would be nice (disclaimer: it's likely that this is already possible and, as usual, I can't find things).
Silvorgold
#2 posted by
Silvorgold
on Feb 24, 2007
First, I'd like to see for that guy to wear a bigger shirt so it can fit his gut!

I enjoy this site, I don't have many problems, but one of the main problems I've had is when I've tried viewing the blog archive, sometimes it gives me entries that just redirects me to the main page.

I'm not a big of the flash element of the site, mainly since I'm on a G3 Mac.. it literally chokes whenever it even thinks about Flash, I'd like to see an HTML-only version of the site for slower users, with an option to open up the jukebox in a popup window.

Also, I've viewed this site on displays that have high resolutions, it looks very cramped on the left side while on the right side there is no content, the layout should spread out depending on the resolution.

I would love to also see the R3-30 have a concrete part of the site, so that the link for the R3-30 to the left doesn't have to be updated every week, such as something similar to "radio3.cbc.ca/r330" or something.

People don't realize that you could look for bands through the "Search Radio 3" search engine below, there should be something that makes people more aware, because I did lots of searching via "site:radio3.cbc.ca" for a long time not realizing that the engine below worked. I remember in the past you could search for bands depending on location, like find a band from Winnipeg, Vancouver or Toronto, that should return.

Either than that, thats about it.
cshefman
#3 posted by
cshefman
on Feb 24, 2007
The wiki idea is really cool, maybe take what last.fm and combine it with the NMC idea so we have a "New Canadian Music Wiki" the authoritative voice on everything new canadian music?

Other than that, it's all cool. I'm a big fan of the art/photos behind the content.
It might be worth considering expanding the blog/creating a second blog that's less of an informational thing and more of an opinion thing. Talking about cancon, the latest developments in the canadian music world... analysis type stuff..,
rdickie
#4 posted by
rdickie
on Feb 24, 2007
This may be a longshot.. but it would be really cool if that flash player could have multiple playlists and behave more like a standalone player. It would certainly be hard to do in flash. The biggest problem i have with it right now is that when i open a link in a new tab the player starts up again in that new tab. Make it easier to search and rate others playlists.. meta-data searches?

User/Artist blogs!??? Artist blogs via NMC would be cool. What web 2.0 site would be complete without some user generated content :P Perhaps a place for bands and fans to submit news or something?

I do find the main text window a slight bit small though. CSS is mostly pixel and font based... can't wait till the internet/applications work entirely vector based. But it would be nice to have 3 different style sheets with prebuilt sizes. Small, medium, and very wide/large.

Generally I like the site and love the artwork. This site loads relatively fast. That is very important! The RSS feed is also pretty good. Since it appears that posts with new comments become "unread" in my reader anyways.. might as well show the number of comments. Also that header artwork for each entry would be neat as well.
Moses
#5 posted by
Moses
on Feb 25, 2007
Prehaps it would be good to have the weekly/daily updates seperate from the other blogs. There is always stuff like Now Hear This or NMC Track of the Day, and it's mixed in with the stuff like this blog. I'd be more convenient (for me at least, I can't speak for others)if they were seperate. I generally don't read the weekly/daily stuff, but do read the informative stuff such as the "New Podcasts Coming Up Monday" blog or this one.

I also enjoy the pop art backgrounds, and even use some of them as my desktop backgrounds. It would be nice if users could submit their own photo's for the background. You would probably not get lots of pop art photos, but you would probably get concert photos. with the larger number of photos available you could update the background more often, with a variety of different photo types.

Also, I have problems with the log in system. When I click log me in automatically, It doesn't log me into the media player, but it does log on so I can post comments. Another example is when I went to post this comment, I logged in using the username/password section in the top left corner of the screen, then when I went to add this comment it said you are currently not logged in, while up in the corner it says logged in as Moses. I took a screenshot, it's available here http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j195/moses_pippy/LoggedinQuestionmark.png
It would be nice to only have to log in once.

And the media player doesn't work in Opera. Maybe there is somethingwrong with my settings, but I need to use safari to ue the media player. If it's not a problem with my settings, I'd like it fixed so that it works with all browsers.
John Paolozzi
#6 posted by
John Paolozzi
on Feb 25, 2007
Great comments so far. Some of these ideas we have in the works, others... we hadn't thought of, so this is great.

Please feel free to drop ideas as they come to you... we're all ears.

Maayanster, you're not crazy... you can only create one playist for the time being.
dnorman
#7 posted by
dnorman
on Feb 25, 2007
Grant, I didn't know you were going to be there! Dammit! I'm a TOTAL R3 junkie! It's the only way to get my fix of that awesome indie crack in Calgary. I'm such an unapologizing R3 and Grand Lawrence Fanboy and would have loved to actually meet you in person. Dammit. Oh, well... I guess I'll settle for replaying R3 podcasts on my iPod until I've worn a hole through the hard drive from playing them over and over and over...
dnorman
#8 posted by
dnorman
on Feb 25, 2007
hmmm... has a nice ring to it. I think from now on I'll call you Grand Lawrence. :-) Silly typos.
tbanwell
#9 posted by
tbanwell
on Feb 25, 2007
Hey John, here's a long one... I've got a story for you.

My name is Tristan, and I am a CBC Radio 3aholic. In fact, I am a pretty hardcore junkie. It is my main source of tunes; I listen almost non-stop. I discovered the podcast while studying abroad in Sweden a year and a half ago and I have been shamelessly pitching R3 to everyone I've met since.

There is more to my identity than my love of R3, however... I study Natural Resources Conservation in the Faculty of Forestry at UBC. I live in a leaky camper (really) and I don't have a computer, so guess where I usually shoot up my R3... In the UBC Forest Sciences Centre! I was sitting in our computer lab typing a paper and listening to Radio 3 through your whole conference! Not kidding. I'll admit, we forestry students might have even poked some fun... Aaanyway, I wandered out into the atrium toward the end of the shindig on Saturday and - lo! - I found a couple of CBC Radio 3 stickers. I trapped them like a stray puck and then looked about wildly, searching for the apparition that had dropped these appropriate goodies, but you were gone.

I figured some random fan had tossed them there until I went back into the lab and saw the blog. I embarrassed myself, I think, when I started pointing at the picture and babbling. "Lookalooka, this here this here, purple-shirt bloggerman c-c-conference radio three me here listen here bloggermanamana," I dribbled, jabbing my finger at the monitor. Strange; my friends did little more than cast oddly sympathetic glances. Anyway, too bad I missed you, I would have liked to give you some feedback in person.

Having failed that, I'll throw in my two cents here. I second what Moses wrote: I really enjoy the background photos. Good stuff there; I'd hate to see that go away. It adds a lot to the site without being intrusive. I've enjoyed the blog; in fact, I've even learned a bit from it. I was skeptical when it was first introduced, but I've come to enjoy reading all the random crap you guys post. The 'Podcast' section is awesome, as it allows those of us who don't have iTunes to see a playlist and follow through when we dig a song.

My main complaint about the site is really sort of a personal issue (though it seems others have similar problems). The Flash element kills me, because the IT buggers here won't let us download Flash. They get off on withholding things from us, you know? Some sort of powertrip fetish. Anyway, I can't use Flash, which means no access to my own playlist, and I can't listen to NMC anymore, either. Is it possible to develop a system to stream user playlists in the same way the radio streams now? Some other way around Flash? What do I know? Only that I can't listen at school, not much more.

On the whole Web 2.0 train (wheeze), I guess you could make some sort of customizable module-type layout, but hey: you've already got rounded corners. I say forget it.

Oh, and by the way John: next time you're out at UBC I'll help you throw some of those crazy contraptions in your truck. In fact, I'm going to write about this whole thing in our weekly newsletter, so maybe some Wood Products Processing students will read it, sympathize for your lack of odd wooden thingamabobs and make you something crazy.

Cheers,
Tristan
John Paolozzi
#10 posted by
John Paolozzi
on Feb 25, 2007
Thanks for the comments Tristan!

Interesting re the fact that they block Flash. I wonder why? I can appreciate them blocking people from downloading and installing freeware, but you'd think that they'd at least make sure the systems would feature basic functions like this.

Anyhoo, all of these comment go into a doc for our developers to consider. We'd like to make sure that as many people can access the site as possible, so we'll see what we can do.

Two more things...

For the record, I'm not the handsome devil in the croptop... I'm this handsome devil who was caught unawares eating a chunk of fried chicken:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kk/401225231/in/pool-northernvoice/

Also, can you tell me what the the large beams in the Forestry building are made of? They look like particle board? Where do you get stuff like that?
rdickie
#11 posted by
rdickie
on Feb 25, 2007
At SFU they don't allow us to install anything on the ugrad lab computers and flash isn't installed normally. Grad computers are a different story because those are funded by our supervisors. Most people end up bringing a usb key though with portable firefox installed [1]. The name portable implies you can store it on your network drive, local hard disk, or wherever. Then you can install flash and whatever else you need. For your instant messaging needs i recommend gaim.

[1] http://portableapps.com/apps/internet/firefox_portable
Gamer
#12 posted by
Gamer
on Feb 25, 2007
I agree with Maayanster about having more playlists. Even just one more playlist would be nice. I find myself adding new songs to my playlist; But, I haven't really fleshed out whether or not I like them. This led me to having 130 songs on my playlist at one point. Half of which when I listened to them again I was wondering why they were there.

It didn't help that I didn't want to delete any of those songs because of the clunky delete system. I'd delete a song and occasionally see a blank space instead of seeing the songs underneath it take it's place. I'm still not sure whether or not it deleted songs I didn't want to delete.

About the search engine at the bottom that Silvorgold mentioned... I always used the user playlists search feature to find songs instead of the one at the bottom. It would probably be more logical to have a link on the top labelled search next to user playlists because that linkbar there is the first place anyone is going to look for something.

Oh, and Silvorgold if you click the arrow at the top right of the R3 Media Player it opens it in a new window.

The New Music Canada page needs it's search feature upgraded. Currently browsing through 50-100 pages of bands of a genre... one... page... at... a... time... is annoying. It also needs a way to see on the browse page how many playlists the band has been added to, how many times it's been shared, and a way to sort the bands beyond its current method of sorting by band names only. I end up randomly clicking bands and surprise, surprise I don't like them. I'm also seeing the first page of band genres with band names that have a number, exclamation point or brackets for no reason whatsoever other than to be on the first page.

Now to wonder whether I should have posted this here or emailed it via the "Contact Us" link at the bottom.
John Paolozzi
#13 posted by
John Paolozzi
on Feb 25, 2007
Gamer,

No, this is good you posted ithere. As I mentioned in the post, I'd like to see this discussed, and all of your points are great. Thanks!
Gamer
#14 posted by
Gamer
on Feb 25, 2007
Re-arraging the playlists with this drag and drop system doesn't work so well when theres alot of songs on the playlist. I can drag songs about 10 spaces before I have to scroll through the playlist to move it further.
chrafo
#15 posted by
chrafo
on Feb 25, 2007
I logged on for the first time today so I don't know much about the evolution of the site. That being said I've already experienced many of the issues that have been raised here. Particularly in the case of searching out artists thru playlists first before figuring out that the search bar could do that for me. Then I felt the frustration of constantly returning to the main menu, then I ended up with a 160 song playlist. Goes to show that if it's happening to you it has already happened to someone else. Now, all of the interface issues aside I loved the content on this site. Especially the NMC favorites links on the artist pages. Following these down the rabbit hole wiled away 4 hours in no time. I wouldn't mind some more editorial content myself especially if you could coax more out of the featured artists themselves. Nothing more interesting than the interests of interesting people I say. Well that's all I can think of for now, but mostly thanks for this great resource it's the who's who and who's almost of all things cancon and that is pretty unique as far as I have seen.
Silvorgold
#16 posted by
Silvorgold
on Feb 25, 2007
"Oh, and Silvorgold if you click the arrow at the top right of the R3 Media Player it opens it in a new window."

I meant for people want the page to be minimalistic or even for people who may have problems with flash (ie me)

I have the flashblock (http://flashblock.mozdev.org/) addon installed for Firefox and it does not allow me to add songs to my playlist, nor allow me to play songs by certain artists when I do have the flash based jukebox working
maayanster
#17 posted by
maayanster
on Feb 25, 2007
Interesting to read some of the responses. Lots of things were mentioned that I thought I'd expose myself as an anal hater if I complained about in the first post, so I'm glad other people did it for me!
Parituclarly the points about the jumbled content in the blog/news/track of the day/everything else window here in the middle of the page. It wouldn't hurt to have a few tabs seperating the different types of information. As the site develops, and you have more editorial content as well as maybe content from musicians and listeners, some sort of classification system would be essential. The other point that I really agreed with was the size issue. Things are a bit squished. In some ways, (notwithstandinghte obvious advantages of the integrated playlists and so forth) I liked having NMC on the seperate site, because it was a little more spread out, 9not so much clicking and scrolling), and the content here was bigger and more graphic. Basically, the current layout is pretty crammed (of fantastic stuff, that I love).
Carrie
#18 posted by
Carrie
on Feb 26, 2007
I'm sure this will come as no surprise, but I love the background photos, too, and always check them out. However, I never see a credit for them (or have maybe seen it once)...I'd like to be able to see who they're by, and possibly visit the photog's website. I'd also be up for contributing backgrounds, if you want some.

The only other thing...I don't create playlists for myself (maybe I should??), but usually just listen to the player on the righthand side. I'd love to be able to fast forward to the next song, or a song further down in the queue. Maybe the option is available and I'm not that bright, but that would be lovely.

Otherwise, you guys already to more for Canadian music than anyone else, and that's good enough for me.

Cheers,
Carrie
tb3
#19 posted by
tb3
on Feb 26, 2007
[+] A way to receive (by email) follow-up comments to blog entries you've posted to, as well as being able to 'subscribe' to posts you're interested in the follow-up comments. Nothing would generate more dialogue than making it a lot easier for lazy people like myself to not have to go back to the post and manually follow the discussion.

[+] Unless I missed a way to do it - it was mentioned by the dude from Vancougar Island on that one podcast, but I have yet to figure out how to do it… A way to sort the New Music Canada bands by their location… So let's say I want to check out only bands from my city, I can generate a list that only pulls new bands from my city or cities I want pool from - kinda like the Best Buy / Future Shop way you can check store selection for certain stores you specify?

[+] And since we're all going Web Deux-pointe-oh & Ajacks… is there a way that we could drag and drop our own items to create our own virtual R3 home page with the content plugged into layout holes? That would be kinda neato.

[+] A preview before you post option… (since this window is so small)

[+] And, in conjunction with the last one, this one's mostly for me… a Mavis Beacon-esque spelling and grammar checker that intervenes before the "submit" stage is final. And in my case it would also automatically delete all comments deemed a) funny only to me, b) useless to the dialogue, c) something "I would say" (which 99.987% of my commenting btw)

I'm with Carrie on the photos… It's one of my favourite things to check out each day. And I'd love to submit some as well as see others submitted too.

Oh why does the scroll bars go manual in some portions of the layout and not others? For example right now I can scroll the blog entry using my scroll setting on the track-pad, but it doesn't work in this comment field?

I think this place is great, I think what you guys are doing is great. No web site has held the first position of my Safari Bookmark bar as long as you guys have. Nor maintained my scatological-infused ADD attention span as long as you have. That means you guys have great content and you always keep it interesting. If nothing else, in the last year you've made me the proudest I've ever been of my homeland and the music it produces. And the people! About the only thing you could do wrong to this web site and satellite radio presence you've got going on, is to turn it off. So, I say keep sneaking into the control room and turning knobs and touchin' buttons!
pragmatic
#20 posted by
pragmatic
on Feb 26, 2007
01I've been going through the magazine again [I was, and always will be, a rabid fan of it, I've read practically every issue] and I was angry that that it would tell you to go to just concerts for more tracks... when the material isn't even online! The links were changed [all logically linked to R3, kudos to that] but no content. I also noticed that most recordings/pictures from the time of the magazine's "old" just concerts disappeared from the site. Like Stars and Apostle of Hustle to name a few.

pragmatic
#21 posted by
pragmatic
on Feb 26, 2007
I am hoping just concerts will become a huge repository for live recordings for new emerging artists! So please, bring back the older recordings.
pragmatic
#22 posted by
pragmatic
on Feb 26, 2007
More search filters please! It's really painful navigating through the pages. Searching a band by genre and subgenres: I loved the hilarious "definitions" Bring it back. Searching by area is also good for finding local bands.

----------------
*How about a calendar for gig dates? Again, available search filters by date, location, band... A calendar can also be shown on each band profile. It would be cool if they can add a fellow band's gig to show their support/musical tastes. It's best to keep such dates color-coded so anyone can tell by glance.
*Ablility to make folders, or some other way to make different playlists for each account
*Ability for all R3 members to post messages on band profiles a la myspace [and every other social networking site you can think of]
pragmatic
#23 posted by
pragmatic
on Feb 26, 2007
Since R3 is essentially a blog... are you registered with the likes of digg, de.lic.ious, and others? You just might get more traffic. I mean, R3 isn't hampered by legal complications to have this message to international visitors: "I'm sorry, this content is only available to Canadian residents."
pragmatic
#24 posted by
pragmatic
on Feb 26, 2007
It would be cool, since you're affiliated with the CBC and all, if you could make video recordings of concerts and audiovisual collaborations? Official video coverage of R3 events like See-Vous-Play and others are welcome.

Such content could be aired on TV! [Yeah, right] If not on TV, the vids can be accessed through the site, or perhaps uploaded to Youtube or DailyMotion with full "director" rights. Oh the possibilities. I'm excited at this idea the most.

This could be the next step for R3!!!
pragmatic
#25 posted by
pragmatic
on Feb 26, 2007
If, if R3 can be a TV show, it could also be a chart show. Somehow, Much's "The Wedge" just doesn't cut it. We need a show where we can see and hear our "home brew" musical acts, And it could have live performances in the vein of ZeD..... One can dream.
tb3
#26 posted by
tb3
on Feb 26, 2007
Tip of the hat to pragmatic!

Video podcast!
RanSolo
#27 posted by
RanSolo
on Feb 26, 2007
I think I've mentioned this one before but I'll say it again as it is the only thing that really bugs me about the site.

When I am catching up on the blog posts I start from the oldest one that I haven't read. As I read, I come across "Play" buttons and often I want to hear the song or interview so I click it. Then I scroll up and continue to read. I come across another "Play" button and it is also something I want to hear but the first one I clicked isn't finished yet. So what happens here is I can't click the button or I won't hear the end of the track that is currently playing. As I continue to read through the posts I try to remember that there was another thing I wanted to listen to (and another, and another) and often I forget to go back and click the links after the first track finishes. Even when I remember I find it annoying that I have to.

What I would like to see is a button beside the play button that will add the track as the next track to play.
Lauren Burrows
#28 posted by
Lauren Burrows
on Feb 26, 2007
John - you do look pretty cute in that fried chicken pic!
John Paolozzi
#29 posted by
John Paolozzi
on Feb 26, 2007
Again... interesting suggestions all! I'm adding all of these to a doc we'll be reviewing in the coming weeks. I am literally pants-wettingly excited about some of the stuff we're planning to build.

RanSolo, interesting suggestion. In the meantime, I suggest adding the items you're listening to to your playlist. This way you can listen to them at your leisure, and delete them as you go.
AKB
#30 posted by
AKB
on Feb 26, 2007
This is a little less design based than some of the other comments but, I'd love to see a return to some of the feature / article style writing of the radio 3 magazine style website. I'd love to see longer pieces both in audio and text format. Like A History of the Sadies... or the influence of Foucault on A.C. Newman's - the Slow Wonder. Though I love the speed of the blog, I sometimes crave a little more depth. Even stuff like 90 second eggs or just interviews in general, would be great to have access to. i don't know if Sirius gets in the way of that.

Anyway keep up the good work.
Kirby
rdickie
#31 posted by
rdickie
on Feb 26, 2007
This is not so much a CBC3 website comment as it is a NMC comment.

I'm a subscriber to both cbc's r3 and bandeapart.fm . One thing I've noticed is that a lot of the bands on the bap podcasts do not have entries in the nmc site.

Also another thing i've noticed is that some of the french songs that are there have missing letters in the flash player. These are always letters with accents. I don't know if its my problem or your problem. Fonts/Unicode can be funny that way.
pragmatic
#32 posted by
pragmatic
on Feb 27, 2007
Yeah, I was thinking that the site and programming info aren't integrated well enough. It's nice to know stuff. A band profile should have stats:

*Has this band been on the R3 charts? Was it ever number one, and for how many weeks? Such info can be linked to official R3 charts.
*Was the band ever featured on any R3 podcasts, R3 blog entries, videocasts, set pictures, Bucky awards, the R3 flashzine, R3 sessions, CD compilations, etc. Again, links pointing to the relevant info. Include dates!
*Were they ever a "featured artist" for the NMC site? There is always a nice complimentary blurb, so that shouldn't be gone to waste.
*Who in the R3 community are fans of this band?
*How many people put this band or a particular song in their playlists?
*How many page views for this particular band?
*Which bands/songs are most popular? Which bands are most popular sorted through genre? The old NMC had a "top 5" and I noticed that Stars, Broken Social Scene were regularly on there. It would be nice to know why... ie through stats.
*Suggestions for similar artists on each band profile.

In a nutshell, such info is a help to all. Users can find music that suits their tastes, and keep up to date on who's who and what's hot. Bands can have some way to judge the reception from their audiences.
pragmatic
#33 posted by
pragmatic
on Feb 27, 2007
it's kind of hard navigating through all the entries. have you tried looking for something in the blog archives? it would be helpful if you put tags in each entry. tags are neat in the way that they categorize stuff. tags are automatically made into links! it's just easier to find info. "this entry is filed under: R3 Development, Announcements"

a blog like this with so much info packed into it daily is really in need of a better Content Management System. Like Moveable Type or something.
Toque
#34 posted by
Toque
on Mar 13, 2007
Great suggestions here! I'll attempt to add some things as yet unsaid here, though I don't see any of these suggestions as ones concerning key site features/functions.

Searching: Well, let's put it this way: The search field on this site yielded 0 results when I typed in "tell us how you want it" (lowercase -- is search case-sensitive?). Googling same phrase along with "radio3" brought up this link as the first search return.

Background images: an archive users an browse would be dope, as it seems to change more and more frequently. Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but allowing users to set their own background using that archive could be pretty cool, too, in case one you really like passes by after only a day or two. Not sure how DRM (if the term applies) for photo content works into that , though.

Magazine archive seems to have permalinks to the articles, and unwieldy as they may be, it would still be good to know that function exists. Not sure where to put that info but it would be handy, since I thought the mag was all Flash-based and thus not easily directly linkable.

Playlists: Someone mentioned a "master file" as a base for multiple playlists, and I look forward to this whenever possible. In fact I collect random tracks I like that don't necessarily relate musically to each other in the hopes I can later create more playlists (eg alt-country, folk, downtempo, hiphip etc).

That's me for now. Thanks R3.

Toque
#35 posted by
Toque
on Mar 13, 2007
or "I can hiphop" -- damn typos ( should be "users can browse" ... "hiphop" in above comment ). Yet another vote for a comment preview function!

Come to think of it, I suppose the search function is pretty key on the site -- and I've experienced much of the same lack of results with Track of the Day searches.
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